[Nakanokalronin]

Like the title states, I'm looking for the factory recoil spring weight for the Bersa Thunder 380. I'm going to try a Wolff recoil spring for the Walther PP (it has the right amount of coils) due to it's longer slide. Thanks.

 

[C. Royce Honeycutt]

As I told you on the phone, not recommended.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

As I told you on the phone, not recommended.

I posted this three days before I contacted you for a replacement recoil spring.

 

[C. Royce Honeycutt]

My apologies if it seemed rude, I was just attempting to be informative.

 

[MidwestJoe]

[EDIT] Addressing the original question:

"What is the weight of the stock recoil spring in the Thunder 380?"​

My very rough estimate would be 13 lb. For a straight-blowback, at least in my opinion, it's recoil-spring is quite under-powered. I think they wanted to avoid the difficult slide-racking that guns like the PPK can have. That's also why they went with a spring that is much longer than neccessary for the frame - which is also why a Walther PP (a much longer gun) has spring that fits in the Bersa and has the right amount of coils.

I just got my new Bersa TPR 380 Plus Threaded - see my post on it here. But I too noticed that recoil is quite snappy, even for a straight blowback. My Makarov never had this much recoil (even before I replaced its recoil spring), and it was in a stronger caliber.

My cheapo Hi-Points also don't anywhere near the felt recoil in the Bersa TPR.

Indeed, as I posted in my new gun thread, the TPR's beaver-tail is literally rubbing the web of my hand raw from both overly-hard impact of the spring, and the un-rounded edges on the beaver-tail. I may smoothe those down, but there is a simpler fix I can user first.

I am going to do what I did with my Makarov, and upgrade the power of the recoil spring to reduce felt recoil. IN straight-blowback designs, increasing the recoil-spring strength is VERY effective at reducing recoil, far more so than in a gun with a locking-action. But you may ask, where am I going to get these springs?

And though indeed it is true that neither Wolff, nor anyone else, sells springs specfically for the Thunder/Firestorm/TPR 380; IIt is also true that Wolff does make springs for a different gun that works perfectly well in the Thunder 380 line - this is confirmed by numerous accounts all over gun forums on the internet, with users stating as much.

So which Gun's recoil spring is it that works? Well, its same recoil spring that this topic's creator mentioned. INdeed multiple forums across the web reveal that the Walther PP Springs (not PPK) work perfectly fine in the Bersa Thunder/Firestorm/TPR 380! And yes, this allows you a way to increase your spring-strength and reduce the felt-recoil in the Beras Thunder 380 line.

Here is one of many threads about this
(I'll add more if anyone feels they need more evidence)

This a post from CalGuns.net circa 2017 where you can read an account of the Walther PP springs compatbility with Bersa Thunder 380 (The BOLDED text is my emphasis):

NorcalGSG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,189 iTrader: 10 / 100%

​ I have a post on here somewhere awhile back, talking about them. Not a post I started just commented. What I had trouble with was snappy recoil. It hurt the top web of my hand, and others that shot it as well, not just me. It wasn't hammer bite, because it has a large beaver tail. It was from the beaver tail being too long, actually. And a softer recoil spring than it needed. So I liked the thing enough I wanted to help it. So I trimmed the beaver tail down shorter, flush with the back of the hammer when cocked, with a cutoff wheel. I then nicely contoured it with a file and sander to blend it all back in to look factory. I also tried a factory replacement recoil spring in case my factory one was faulty. Nope, they were the same and both in my opinion too soft. So no aftermarket ones are available, so I found an application close enough to work. The Walther PP "larger" 380 has an aftermarket Wolfe spring available that is heavier than the factory Bersa one. Its slightly shorter and smaller diameter, but it works. And it softens recoil a fair bit, with still being reliable. This lessens the shock to the frame from the slide, and will help the frame last longer. These two mods were definitely helpful to reduce the recoil, and make it more like what I felt it should be given the cartridge and weight. And its not that I'm that smart, I'm just posting this because I could find literally nothing to mention about these mods or reducing the recoil from these things. Plenty of BS out there though if you ask about reducing recoil "its only a 380, blah blah" well I'd say most of the tools posting that never actually shot a Bersa side by side with a different make 380 to compare, let alone figure out how to fix it. I'm talking about making them suitable to run a few hundred though at a time for practice, like you should be able to without causing nerve damage over time hahaha.

NorcalGSG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,189 iTrader: 10 / 100%

​ https://www.gunsprings.com/WALTHER/P...1/mID70/dID302 No promises but I'm pretty sure its this one, the heaviest 18lb one that they offer that I used. And there is a total lack of aftermarket thin grips for these things that would be really nice too. Some plastic checkered or aluminum ones would be sweet. The Concealed Carry model is the replacement magazine I believe that has the shorter base plate, but still works and holds one extra also.

Here is my new gun and updates thus far (see my post about it) Once I have tried out the 16 lb ,17 lb and 18 lb Walther PP springs, I'll rpeort back on what worked best!

 

[Nakanokalronin]

Look forward to your report. I sent in my Thunder 380 for warranty repair to American Arsenal & Armory. They received it on 4/6 so hopefully I'll get it back at some point soon.

 

[MidwestJoe]

WOW, it made an AMAZING DIFFERENCE!!! And honestly, I think this change is vital if you are going to run a can on Bersa 380, IMO.

Your mileage may very, as I would guess it voids your warranty. As such I can't give this as a recommendation as something to do, I can only say it worked great for me - though one one additonal change (a super easy one thoygh) had to be done.

HOWEVER, I had make one mod to the last coil on the Wolff springs* - of which, the 18lb one which has tamed the recoil AMAZINGLY made one change. I tried all weights and the 18lb worked 100% and reduced the recoil the most, unsurprisingly.

I tried the 15, 16, 17 and 18 lb springs by the way (As shown above), just to see which worked best on my gun. The 18lb was the best for my gun. Again other people's moleage may vary, bit this matches the reports I have seen elsewhere.

*As stated though, I did make one other change: For some the very last coil on ONE end of each Wolff spring was too small to get onto to the barrel, I don't why they made the last coil that way (Edit:any theories on why I'd like to know...its not like the type of springs that get cylindrically wider on one end, but its just one coil - afaik the Walther PP doesn't need this one tighter coil). But for each spring all I had to do to fox this to take a pair of pliers or two and just losen the last coil and a half a little use force to male the coil imperceptibly larger (bit as little change as it took, it was was enough to the last coil onto the barrel and allow me to compress rhe spring fully without issue - though as others have stated, the springs are tighter on the barrel and you have to kind of work thr onto the barrel the very first time you install them)

Once fix the last coil one end that is to tight, I suggest using a little force to slide the spring onto the barrel, and then yse the slide compress the spring partiall a few times. Then I was able to fully compress the spring on the barrel (as far as my strength would allow, but it not fitting issues after I loosened the last coil).

The only other challenge I had was getting the slide back on the very first time, but it turns put I was just doing wrong as I had with the original-sprong before - for me it sometimes hard to get the slide back on the TPR 380, with both the original and new spring.

I am honestly amazed and the reduction in felt recoil, and as stated, I think this strength spring should mandatory if you are running a can!

I honestly wish I only bought the 18lb spring, not the 15, 16, and 17 lb springs as well... but it was an experiment, and it turned out GREAT!

Admittedly Wolff springs are slightly tighter on the barrel, which could increase friction over time, but so far the spring hasn't even worn off any finish off the barrel, so I am not concerned about that - and I expected that going in, as everyone else on the web had posted that.

Again, this is just my experience and opinion, nothing more.

EDIT: By the way, this is what I was shooting with 100% reliability with the Wolff 18lb spring. The 100 grains are a good choice for guaranteed subsonic out of the longer 4.3" threaded barrels, just fyi

Sorry for typos, this was phone-written

 

[Nakanokalronin]

Sounds like it worked out well! I'm glad to see there are options for anyone that may want to increase the spring weight for one reason or another.

 

[battlerattle]

so you tested 15# - 18# springs, which would you say was comparable to the original factory spring?

 

[MidwestJoe]

so you tested 15# - 18# springs, which would you say was comparable to the original factory spring?

Great question.

EDIT 2: I just made a very rudementary test for the springs, and the using the rough estimation from the follow method:

I measured the Factory OEM Spring at 12 Pounds.

MATERIALS

* Bersa Factory OEM Recoil Spring

*Wolff Walther PP "Factory Standard" Recoil Spring with "Load Rating: 15.0 LBS"

*Clear Cigar tube just slightly wider in diameter than the srpings, and over 3" longer than the springs relaxed.

*A dime to use as a lid on top of the spring.

*Tungsten #8 bird shot

PROCESS

1. I took the empty clear cigar tube and placed it over than the relaxed Bersa Factory-spring standard upright on a level table
2. I then used a dime to top off the spring in the tube (it is a very close fit to the edge of the tube just like the springs)
3. I marked where the top of the spring was with a sharpe on the tube
4. I then filled to the tube to the top with #8 pure-tungsten birdshot (note that the Bersa spring is about 1/8" shorter than the Wolff)
5. I then marked where the spring had been compressed to
6. I then saved the tungsten shot unto a container for use on the Wolff spring
7. I then repeated the same process with the Wolff and the same amount of Tungsten Shot.
8. Now I had had the ammoumt of compression to compare between the two.

The Wolff Walther PP 15 Lb Factory-spring compressed at least 20% less than the Bersa Factory-spring (it compressed approx 4/5 or 80% of the distance the Bersa spring).

If this test and calculation is accurate at all, then fhat means using my Bersa OEM spring from my Bersa TPR 380 Plus we can conclude:

A Bersa 380 Factory Spring has a strength of 12 LBS​

EDIT: After hand-compressing sing both the OEM and the 15 pound recoil Springs, comma I can definitely say the oem Spring is actually significantly weaker than the 15 pound Spring.. When I had it in the firearm I did not notice the difference is significantly, but when you actually handle them and attempt to manually compress the Springs, It's very clear that the Bersa OEM spring is much weaker than the lb Wolff recoil spring. So I revert my opinion to that the OEM sping is no more than 13 lb.

I am always glad to admit when I am wrong in my edits, and this one is no exception. That OEM is anemic when you handle it next to the "Factory" weight 15 lb Walther PP spring from Wolff.

Original Reponse: The 15 lb spring seemed to be a slight improvement over the factory, if just barely - I would say the factory OEM spring was probably a 14 lb spring (if I had to guess), so the 15 lb was very similiar; if not the same weight altogether (I could just be biased in thinking its stronger).

Remember though that the last coil on one end must to be loosened if you order one for use on your Bersa.

 

[MidwestJoe]

EDIT: The upgrade below is only applicable to those of you with the Bersa Thunder CC.

For info on reducing the recoil in the standard Bersa Thunder/TPR/Firefly 380, or any of the Bersa 380 Plus series, see my posts above this one about the great success I had with the Wolff Walther PP spring.

However, if you do have a Bersa thunder CC, you could most certainly try the Wolff Walter PPK Recoil Spring for reduced recoil, just like I tried and succeeded in using the Wolff Walther PP spring in the non-CC version - and to great success! All the research I did seems to indicate this (remember though that the last coil has to be loosened on the PPK spring just like the PP's).

Due to the effectiveness of the 18 lb Wolff Walther PP Spring in the standard Bersa, there are zero good reasons to try the PPK Spring, with its far fewer coils than what the Standard Bersa 380 was designed for. Additionally, in the nomral TPR/Thunder 380 the 18 lb Wolff PP spring is working so perfectly that am halting this test. If I ever Bersa 380 CC, I then will try out these PPK springs I ordered.

So apply the following only to the Bersa CC, as the CC has 3.2" barrel that requires the smaller spring that matches the PPK spring length and, more importantly, the coil-count.

Here begins the original post:
__

I have a new project I am working on based upon discovery about the springs of the Bersa "CC" Line: The "CC" springs are very different From the standard line's springs

And it just so happens* Ithat the Bersa 380 "CC" line use a spring with 8.5 coils just like a Walther PPK

CC LINE RECOIL SPRING EXAMPLES:

Bersa CC Image posted by another user in these forums:

Screen-grab from Scootch00's YouTube review of the Bersa Thunder CC:

Note that the CC springs have approximately 8.5 coils - that is the same as Walther PPK or PPK/S.

Here is what the standard Bersa Thunder 380 Spring looks like, just for reference:

Knowing that the CC can use normal Bersa 380 springs (and when the are ordered/replaced for the CC, that is iNdeed what is sent to the user), it leads to the conclusion:

The Bersa 380 standard could use the fewer coil spring of the Bersa 380 CC.

Thus, if I was able to use Wolff's Walther PP 18lb XP springs on my Bersa 380, due to the same coil count and and approximate diameter, then...

I may well be able to use Wolff's Walther PPK/S 380 springs for the Bersa 380 - since the Wolff PPK springs are the same coil count (meaning the PPK spring is the same approximate length when compressed as the CC spring - which is the only spring-length that matters for functionality) as the Bersa CC spring.

Meaning, I now have acceas to both a 20 Lb "standard" PPK spring, and even the 24 Lb XP PPK recoil-spring for testing in my Bersa!

I am eager to test fit, functionality, reliability, and (of greatest interest) Recoil Mitigation using the Wolff PPK springs.

Thanks to WaltherForums.com, you can see that the PPK spring from Wolff is a dead-ringer for the Bersa CC spring (pulled from there)

"The top spring is a German PPK/S .380 original factory spring. The bottom spring is a Wolff 20lb (factory weight) spring"

Top: OEM spring on PPK barrel; Bottom: Wolff "standard" 20 lb spring on PPK barrel

Comparing that to the Bersa CC spring, and you can easily picture the Wolff 20 lb PPK spring working in the Bersa CC - which, if my theory holds, should work fine in a standard Bersa Thunder 380.

You can compare the CC 380's 8.5 coil spring (just like the Walther PPK) to the normal 14 or 15 coil Bersa 380 springs

**UPDATE WRONG: Since both the CC and Standard/Combat have the same slides and barrel length, they should be interchangeable in my mind.

CORRECTION: The CC model as a 3.2 inch barrel and the standard has a 3.5 inch barrel. The slide is also possibly shorter.

So they HAD to use PPK coil-count springs on the CC, otherwise the compressed springs would have prevent the shorter slide from cycling all the way back with normal the normal coil-count. So this may or may not work for the upgrading the spring knnthe standard to Wolff 20 Lb springs like the PPK uses


Standard Bersa 380 Spring - Same as the Walther PP Spring Design

380 CC Spring - Same as a Walther PPK Spring Design

Various Standard Bersa 380 springs (same as the Walther PP spring design)

*Seeing that the Bersa Thunder standard spring, and tjen the Bersa CC spring, are both essentially copies of different lines of Walther product springs, it lends credence to the theory that it was indeed the Walther PPK, and the Walther PP, which were the primary inspirations/template for the Bersa Thunder and Firefly - not the Beretta as many have hypothesized. The takedown lever on the Bersa is essentially the same mechanism as the Walther's; they just smartly swapped pulling down the trigger-guard with pulling down on a lever - a far superior design to move down the locking lug IMO.

 

[battlerattle]

correct the CC model's slide, barrel recoil spring and slide stop are shorter

the one on the left you won't find in the Bersa line-up, it's a CC Plus chambered in 32NAA

 

[C. Royce Honeycutt]

You can guess all you want, but directly from the mouth of the gentlemen that designed and manufactured the Bersa, it is based off of Beretta Designs. The Walther Recoil Spring is not the same.

 

[MidwestJoe]

You can guess all you want, but directly from the mouth of the gentlemen that designed and manufactured the Bersa, it is based off of Beretta Designs. The Walther Recoil Spring is not the same.

Or maybe he didn't want to admit he was straight copying multiple parts of PP/PPK componentry, so he pointed everyone to the Beretta as a Red herring. You can place the parts side by side, and the the whole firearms, and the abundant similarities between the Bersa and the Walther are pretty overwhelming - something you don't encounter when placing the parts/guns side by side with the Bersa and the Beretta.

I'd rather examine the physical evidence than take the word of someone who has a vested interest in making it appear that he copied less components then he actually did.

You were mistaken in your advice to the OP to not try the PP recoil spring, and I think you're wrong about the Beretta, despite creators claims that I think are a dubiousred herring (also you could have just looked up the numerous posts accross the web about the recoil spring, posts dating back over a decade, where many others had already reported that PP spring worked excellently in the Bersa 380s)

 

[MidwestJoe]

FYI i made a video about my new Bersa and the other "TPR380" that are becoming available in the USA. Only seen the the TPR380 PLUS in stock so far, but the others are coming very soon: