Considerations

Discussion in 'What Bersa Should I Get' started by Tom M, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. Tom M

    Tom M Member

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    So when I bought my BT380, I was at a show (Capital City Gun Show in Jackson, MS). After a good bit of research, I knew I wanted a Bersa -preferably the CC model. They didn't have one at the show, but there were several dealers with the original BT. It felt great in my hand, so I went with it. $260. I do not regret it it the least.

    I've seen the videos about the cracked frames, and one guy calls it the "dirty Argentinian". Gotta wonder what ammo he used. Mine was darn near clean after 150 rounds of Fiocchi fmjs, so I'm writing him off as a crank as well.

    I haven't held the CC model yet, and I don't think I will - might like it too much, and money's tight!

    Anyway, I was thinkin about the Sig, and the Kimber, and the Walther, etc. Asked myself - "are they really THAT much better?

    I bought the Thunder.
     
  2. Pistol_Packin_Preacher

    Pistol_Packin_Preacher Well-Known Member

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    Tom:

    I have seen a lot of videos that will trash one thing or another.
    It appears some people may feel they are showing their expertise if they can make an item look inferior.
    Now there may have been an issue with the Thunder frame.
    But if there was, I have not heard of anything for years.
    The video is probably pulling from ancient reports.
    I have personally not seen or heard personally of anyone having any frame issues with their Bersa.
    Keep shooting and enjoying your Bersa Thunder.
    Then you report back here your own personal experience.
    We would all greatly enjoy and appreciate that.

    God bless!!

    Michael
     
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  3. Tom M

    Tom M Member

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    Appreciate that, Brother Michael. I've enjoyed your words in these threads already. Keep up the good work!
     
  4. dutchboy

    dutchboy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hey there Tom.

    The Rev could not have said it any better. I've heard those old rumors as well however, I've never met or talked to anyone who has in fact experienced a cracked Bersa frame.

    The only thing I'll add to this conversation is the issue of +P ammo. Yes we are all aware of no such designate as +P 380 ammo, however there are some brands such as BB that do offer ammo in what they configure as +P 380 ammo.

    And while Bersa does note on there website that the Thunder can handle +P ammo, I certainly would not feed it a steady diet of this ammo! Doing so I think, ups the chances of causing potential problems, not to mention the outright discomfort in your hands!

    As the Rev said, keep shooting and enjoy your BT380.
     
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  5. Tom M

    Tom M Member

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    Agreed Dutchboy. Personally, I don't see a fair ROI on using +p in the guns I have (the Taurus M85 UL and the T380.) Certainly not worth the wear and tear. I can't really envision a situation where the +p is going to be the difference between breathing and the dirt.
     
  6. Renaldo

    Renaldo Well-Known Member

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    The internet never forgets, old videos and posts remain in perpetuity.

    I'll admit to using +P, but only when I carry the BT380 for defense. Agreed, there is no SAAMI 380 +P, but I don't believe the companies like Buffalo Bore or Underwood making it are going against SAAMI as much as maybe loading more towards the standards of CIP, the European version of SAAMI. SAAMI and CIP measure pressure in different ways, and the CIP data seems to allow for slightly stouter loads. Sometimes you'll read comments about 380acp where people mention that S&B and other Euro manufacturers tend to load a bit hotter. I think it's just that they're loading to CIP standards, not SAAMI.

    Pre WWII the 380acp was mainly a European round, and most of the early development came out of Europe. Post WWII it lost favor globally due to the rise of 9mm, and mainly survived due to South American and Eastern European laws keeping it at the top of the food chain for civilian pistol rounds. Ammo loaded in those countries tend to be hotter, and the pistols manufactured in those countries seem to have no problem handling the pressures of hotter 380 loads. The BT380 included.

    In the US, the 380 had its' place, but wasn't popular like it is today. Many 380's in the US were the 'Saturday night special' cheapos, or imported European pistols like Walthers. This recent spate of poly pocket guns has given new life the round. The new pocket guns are very light and small compared to the medium sized, alloy or steel framed European and South American pistols, and are definitely not designed to shoot beyond the SAAMI standard. I wouldn't dream of firing +P in my 9oz Ruger LCP. I don't think it would blow up, but I do think it might hurt my hand and may reduce the life of the pistol.

    So, what I'm trying to say in my round about and long winded way is; I tend to worry about SAAMI when it comes to my pistols that are made by members of SAAMI, but generally ignore them when it comes to foreign pistols whose manufacturers aren't a member of SAAMI.
     
  7. dutchboy

    dutchboy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hey Renaldo,

    Can you be more specific as this relates to the BT380. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, and I hope I am, but are you implying that one should not concern themselves with shooting +P ammo in the BT380?

    Just trying to get some clarification, that's all.
    Thanks
     
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  8. Pistol_Packin_Preacher

    Pistol_Packin_Preacher Well-Known Member

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    Dutch:

    I got out of it that Reynaldo is comfortable shooting +P ammo out of the metal more full compact size Euro/So American .380s but not comfortable shooting +P out of the small poly guns like the Ruger, S&W, and maybe even the Taurus.
    It was the fact that he felt the small poly made might not stand up to the abuse of +P or even the shooters hand for that matter.
    Being the Bersa is a little bigger in size and a full metal production he feels the Bersa should be able to bear up to the higher pressures.

    I am sure Reynaldo will correct me if I am wrong in my assessment.

    God bless!!

    Michael
     
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  9. Renaldo

    Renaldo Well-Known Member

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    Michael beat me to it lol. Great interpretation of my digital chicken scratches.

    I wouldn't advise anyone to shoot ammo that they don't feel comfortable with and by no means am I in a spot to guarantee safety for anyone in that regard.

    I'm saying I believe the ammo boutique makers mark as +P's may be loaded to CIP pressure standards which are known to be safe in European style pistols like the Walther, BT380, Beretta 85's, etc. I don't think these makers are overloading 380acp and calling it +P, I think they're taking advantage of the difference in the way SAAMI and CIP measure pressure, and loading a hotter round that may be out of spec for SAAMI, but still within spec for CIP.

    And I'm saying I've fired some of the 380 +P and there's no way I'd want to shoot it in a 9oz pistol!
     
  10. dutchboy

    dutchboy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks guys!

    I sincerely hope no one thought I was knocking or challenging Renaldo's post. And I'm sorry if anyone did. I kinda thought that's what he was saying, but was not totally sure, and in keeping with my "signature", I would rather ask 10 times, than go astray once. LOL!

    I think we all agree that +p ammo is a heavy load, and unless you have hands like Dr. No in the James Bond movie, repeated use of this stuff is gonna take it's toll on the gun, the hand or both!

    Thanks gentleman.
     
  11. Renaldo

    Renaldo Well-Known Member

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    I definitely didn't think that, Dutch. Clarification is always good!
     
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  12. Pistol_Packin_Preacher

    Pistol_Packin_Preacher Well-Known Member

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    Hey Dutch, you are fine there.
    Took me reading thru it again to confirm.
    Like Renaldo stated, it was longer.
    But reading it again it caught me how good it was and what he was trying to relay to us.
    Besides Dutch, if you were going to tell us something, you would just say it flat out!
    I like that.

    Have a great day every one!

    God bless!!

    Michael
     
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